tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post7562997081503167892..comments2023-09-30T08:53:15.486-07:00Comments on Shelly Lowenkopf's Blog: Take Your Inner Creep for an Occasional Dairy Queenlowenkopfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05198658136254028258noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-27437173100607200242008-09-03T15:35:00.000-07:002008-09-03T15:35:00.000-07:00I tend to prefer a set of dual protags that antago...I tend to prefer a set of dual protags that antagonize one another in the face of additional outside antagonism. Where both protags have a common goal, just different ideas about how to get there, and flaws are marvelous. All good characters need inherent as well as acquired flaws in logic, morality, sensibilities, emotions, etc. The dueling epitomes of good and evil just simply become boring, and generally has but one conclusion.Wild Irishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06155848340128070251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-36108175679892253592008-09-03T07:50:00.000-07:002008-09-03T07:50:00.000-07:00The language in The Wire is so vile you wouldn't w...The language in The Wire is so vile you wouldn't want your kiddo around, but it is also very funny in its nuances and part of the charm.Querulous Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11708026581220562733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-75878212457543499912008-09-02T20:23:00.000-07:002008-09-02T20:23:00.000-07:00Well, I admit it. I don't watch The Wire. When I...Well, I admit it. I don't watch The Wire. When I'm not with my kiddo or grading papers, I'm here instead. I miss a lot of things. When I do watch television, my weakness is Torchwood. And I don't have room in my life for any other.<BR/><BR/>But I try to look at a show I like and figure out what it is about that appeals to me, what makes me care, what makes it meaningful.<BR/><BR/>I also love many of the complicated characters in Hayoa Miyazaki's films. I suppose I like my complications with a mix of the fantastic.<BR/><BR/>Sigh. I hope my characters are complex enough. <BR/><BR/>And in case you missed it over at my place, I'm interested. Send me a story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-89723620554407246422008-09-02T17:21:00.000-07:002008-09-02T17:21:00.000-07:00I'm very confused about the whole black/white anta...I'm very confused about the whole black/white antagonist/protagonist thing, which I understand you are suggesting we make less black and white and even, perhaps, on the surface, reversed. I do appreciate David's comment, because I think that it's a traditional model in fiction that there must be an antagonist/protagonist instead of, say, serial antagonists like when someone keeps repeating a compulsion to be attracted to the same type of bad people, or just people constantly throwing obstacles up at each other in an ever-escalating struggle where there is no clear good and evil, like much of life, each of course believing he/she is the good one.<BR/><BR/> Also, Rawls in the Wire is very pathetic, comical in his bile and terrible at being manipulative. He doesn't even rate as a sociopath. But, yes, he is also sympathetic in some ways and McNulty could not be a more flawed protagonist. David: see it. I'm watching the whole series for the second time.Querulous Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11708026581220562733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-53282065931638392002008-09-02T06:57:00.000-07:002008-09-02T06:57:00.000-07:00Re: David R's first comment... an interesting chil...Re: David R's first comment... an interesting children's/YA series are Eoin Colfer's <I>Artemis Fowl</I> books. Somewhat similar to the Harry Potter books -- contemporary setting, but one in which magic and magical creatures play key roles.<BR/><BR/>What makes them interesting in this context, though, is that the protagonist is a "criminal mastermind" in his early teens, dedicated to the making of money by any means -- an immoral "hero." (Over time it becomes obvious he's not interested in money for money's sake. But he does glory in his "ha ha, look at me and how evil I am!" persona.<BR/><BR/>Btw, Colfer reportedly has described the series as "<I>Die Hard</I> with fairies." Which cracks me up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-87019406737824717032008-09-01T21:17:00.000-07:002008-09-01T21:17:00.000-07:00You could make up for it by causing the antagonist...You could make up for it by causing the antagonist to need Weight Watchers counseling later.David Rochesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084315223515340046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-56607309402971790232008-09-01T19:58:00.000-07:002008-09-01T19:58:00.000-07:00Okay, I keep thinking about this. If I take my cr...Okay, I keep thinking about this. If I take my creep to DQ, does that make me a coconspirator in my protagonist's suffering? Am I the instigator? "Psst. Here's a hot fudge sundae. Now go do this..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-60183237603262099592008-09-01T19:17:00.000-07:002008-09-01T19:17:00.000-07:00I think there are a number of stories in which the...I think there are a number of stories in which the nominal antagonist is actually the protagonist, but is masquerading as the antagonist due to the oddly-still-relevant "morality" code of fiction, in which the protagonist tends to be a better person, somehow, than the antagonist, even when the antagonist is a fully-drawn character. Mervyn Peake's "Titus Groan" and "Gormenghast" come strongly to mind; the whole thing goes to hell in a handbasket after the "antagonist" Steerpike is done away with, because he is such a fantastically perfect antihero. Actually, as I'm considering this, I'm thinking that some of the most interesting fiction occurs when the protagonist and antagonist really add up to make one person, as in <I> Red Dragon </I> the first book about Hannibal Lecter, in which Lecter is quite obviously the shadow side of Will, the protagonist. <BR/><BR/>Which is, I realize, something completely different from the point you're making here, but you know, sometimes I just start typing and I can't be responsible for the relevance of whatever comes out.<BR/><BR/>Reading your blog lately has made me very curious to see <I> The Wire</I>; I'll have to check out its availability on Netflix.David Rochesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07084315223515340046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-55969834625809968772008-09-01T18:36:00.000-07:002008-09-01T18:36:00.000-07:00You've made my day. Thanks.You've made my day. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7916332485223671615.post-34892016895553162982008-09-01T15:58:00.000-07:002008-09-01T15:58:00.000-07:00Well, the story I sent you didn't have a creep, bu...Well, the story I sent you didn't have a creep, but should you ever happen to read a story of mine with a creep in it, you'll have to let me know if they're full of enough ice cream.<BR/><BR/>(I try to be nice to the fellows on the blog, but since they're real, I don't know if they want to go to DQ with me.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com